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StenEd Theory

 
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bleedinghrt



Joined: 29 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:14 pm    Post subject: StenEd Theory Reply with quote

I'm learning this theory in school... I have to say though that I am half way through the book (there are 40 lessons and I'm on 24) and am finding it kinda of difficult to teach myself this style of writing. My question is, did you learn 1 type of theory and then changed it later on? I am wondering if this will only confuse me if I change theories? I don't want to feel as if I'm struggling getting through theory.

Thanks in advance all!!
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aprylmontero
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a working reporter I'm constantly learning new briefs and incorporating new ideas and methods. If I recall correctly, Sten Ed is one of the more stroke intensive theories. But the most important thing is to learn your theory, learn it well, and then you can build upon it. Good luck.
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brenday
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It can be done, but I'm not sure I understand you. You're in school using the theory they teach, yet you're teaching yourself? It would be difficult to be in a theory class and work on a theory not being taught, I'd think.

Apryl has good advice. Learn your theory and then feel free to tweak it where you see fit. My school was all for the student using what worked for the individual; other schools and theory classes aren't as broadminded.
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bleedinghrt



Joined: 29 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brenday wrote:
It can be done, but I'm not sure I understand you. You're in school using the theory they teach, yet you're teaching yourself? It would be difficult to be in a theory class and work on a theory not being taught, I'd think.

Apryl has good advice. Learn your theory and then feel free to tweak it where you see fit. My school was all for the student using what worked for the individual; other schools and theory classes aren't as broadminded.


Well in class, all we do is just go over what the chapter will be about, then we go home and practice (or practice there in class on the school's pc), then we come back to class when we think we are ready to test for it.

so, for me, i kinda consider it "teaching myself".... although the instructors are there for questions and to give you the tests.
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brenday
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh! Things sure have changed. I keep saying it, but I keep realizing just how true it is, over and over again.
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malloric
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's how we learned theory as well. We had all the lessons in Global Cat and they can be installed into Eclipse as well. I'm pretty sure Stenograph does a similar thing through stenograph university with their theory.

I picked up Magnum Steno a few months after finishing theory. I've probably covered 5% of it so far... there's an overwhelming amount of stuff in there and I'm more focused on building speed so it's slow progress.

My limited perspective is that Magnum/Stenomaster builds very nicely on StenEd. Magnum is a whole lot more complex both in theory and prodigious use of arbritraries, but 90% of Sten Ed is in Magnum so it wasn't really wasted time. For example SPW for int/ent prefixes, SKP for and, FRP from -mp are all both StenEd and Magnum. Magnum just has whole lot more in it (KPW for im prefixes, tucking in endings, god awful exhaustive list of common words in one stroke).
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brenday
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For example SPW for int/ent prefixes, SKP for and, FRP from -mp are all both StenEd and Magnum. Magnum just has whole lot more in it (KPW for im prefixes, tucking in endings

All those and more (-rv, nch, rch, tle, dle, etc.) I learned in the mid-'80s. Class was 3 hrs long, teacher there, no real test until we got to the point of moving on to 80s speed building class. Very different.

BTW, KPB is for imp/emp/imb/emb prefix, not im~ alone.
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bleedinghrt



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wish Keith would post in here... My instructor told me he switched to Mark K's theory after he finished StenEd theory.....
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maoeuk
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I learned StenEd and have retool'd it heavily in the last few years with a hodge podge of techniques/tid bits of theory I pluck from this forum and from Mark K.

Before about 140-160, any briefing/phrasing you do is nice but shouldn't come at the expense of not knowing how to write phonetically -- though I will say that getting a feel for phrases and familiarizing yourself with phrase-concepts EARLY in school will help you to incorporate those phrases later as needed. It really, really sucks for people who try to switch to "SKP" for "and" when they are already writing 3 words a second.

If you are solid on your theory foundation, practice briefs/phrases to your heart's content. I was a brief hound right from theory, but I also practiced writing things out phonetically as much as I could stand and spent hours a day outside of class.

I would write a take, review the realtime, then write from the hardcopy to repeat any problem areas. Well into speedbuilding, I found I still needed to practice phonetic writing and spent about 15 mins a day on names/numbers dictation.

The fortunate thing with Mark K's theory is that, for the most part, the phonetic part of the steno is pretty interchangeable with StenEd, so the briefs will make sense from that standpoint.

I think the most radical change -- and probably one of the easier things to pick up -- is his use of inflected endings. In StenEd, the only instance of this is adding "Z" to words ending in "D" to make them plural. Mark K. takes that concept right across the board to include every other ending. That's something you might also start practicing early (one piece at a time).

You might decide any word that ends in "T", you'll just drop down and pick up that "S" to make it plural.

Happy practicing! Very Happy
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CallipygianInCali
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I emailed you, bleeding. Why do I have to post too? lol. Let me know if you did not receive it. I totally echo what Mike and the others have said.

As I said in the email, everyone is different and everyone adds to their theory. Most of us tweak or get rid of at least a few things. I learned Sten Ed and I thought that it did not work great for me. Then I got into 80 WPM class, and it kicked my butt. I bought the Stenomaster book and the rest is history.

As Mike said, the theory goes well with Sten Ed as it is not radically different like it might be from some theories (Phoenix). You would do well to finish Sten Ed and get into speed classes, then see what you think. You may find Sten Ed works very well for you, or you may find that you want to tweak at least a few things.

You can pick up so many things from these forums and from tweakers like myself. Just a few minor additions/changes to your theory can make a big difference. And feel free to contact me anytime that you have a question about anything.

But yes, one of the earliest things you should do is get inflected endings on the first stroke. If you can fit the ed or ing, with the -D or -G , do it. I also highly recommend using -Z for plurals and not -S.
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ShugarSteno
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like Keith and Mike, I too learned StenEd and have tweaked the theory a little bit here and there as my speeds progressed. Unlike the other two, I have not undertook the task of looking into any one theory in specific to look for things I would want to pick up. My tweaking really stems from my desire to brief and phrase and make those briefs and phrases work with my theory base, which meant I picked up a few things that are not StenEd.
I do not have the experience that these others have but my thought is that you should never learn a whole theory and waste that time if you have every intention of just learning a new one as soon as you are done.
To take this in another direction, I notice from this thread is that the three of us who have learned StenEd all started to tweak it later on, as speeds increased and we found that we were needing to brief and phrase and incorporate other principles. I could be wrong about this but from my conversations with both Keith and Mike, individually, as well as from my own experience, none of us had a problem with StenEd in theory and did not choose to deviate until later. It sounds like you are saying you are having a difficult time with learning the theory though. Is that the case? Is there something in specific you find to be difficult about StenEd? To be honest, it sounds like it is just the way it is being taught to you because StenEd is very popular and is considered an easy theory to teach and learn (vs. Phoenix).
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Melly



Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Apryl. Sten Ed is stroke intensive, and I would say that most people who learn Sten Ed, or any theory for that matter, revise and revamp as they go. Very experienced reporters have told me that in the end, your own writing style will hardly resemble your theory in its purest form. Also, the CAT systems are so sophisticated now that you can have conflicts in your writing and the AI will figure it out for you. I believe Sten Ed does not take the IA into account. Apparently for now, Sten Ed is the least of the theory evils out there. I would stick with one theory and adapt it to my style of writing.
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CallipygianInCali
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very good points by Shug and Melly. I think it would be kind of hard to switch theories midstream while still learning one. Different theory books are not laid out the same at all. The only way to switch horses in midstream easily is either if someone made a book that compared the different theories and what they do for each principle, so if you didnt like one for that principle you could just use a diff theory for that, or if you had a tutor that had been through it all before and offered you pointers on what you can do instead of each thing you don't like.

Since I know bleeding personally, I have already sent her some such advice and have told her that I am willing to provide more, and she can contact me anytime with any questions that she has. Other than that, it's just easier to get through theory (realizing that you don't need to spend months and months on it and you don't need to worry too much about suffixes and prefixes and some of the more complicated stuff because you don't need perfect realtime right now, you just need to know the basics and to be able to move up in speed) and then after you learn the basic theory and get started in speeds, then you can begin the process of tweaking.

Similar to Shug, I use stuff from everywhere. I use a lot of Mark K's stuff, but not all. I have so many things I have picked up elsewhere and so many I have totally dreamed up on my own. So my "theory" is quite unique. But others would not want to tweak as much. Bleeding needs to figure out where she stands, but that probably won't come in theory. It's easier to see what works for you when you are trying to keep up with a certain speed.
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