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Steno Jules
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 8:01 am    Post subject: Court Hours Reply with quote

After a 14-hour day yesterday in court with 450 pages, I'm wondering what is the norm in other areas of the country. Our courts here share judges and have very heavy dockets, so if it's set for a day, it pretty much has to wrap up in a day or you'll have to bring the jury back weeks later when a slot opens up to finish the case. I just kind of assume when I'm set for an all-day jury that it means I will be there well into the evening.

Just curious if this is the norm in other areas as well or if it's an oddity of our area. I will say, though, that the judge not only checked with me before making the decision to push ahead but actually thanked me publicly before releasing everyone for the night. Oh, how I wish I could clone him!! In Love
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Rabin-Monroe



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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it solely depends on the judge. I've worked in courts in three states, and some judges (irrespective of the state) will go into the night, while others won't. I had a jury trial this past week, and on Monday, at about 4:50, the judge asked the jury if they'd like to continue to closings and deliberate that night or come back in the morning. Jury elected to come back in the morning. Thank goodness!! We were in court the next day from 9:00 to almost 2:00, so I'm very thankful we didn't stay through the evening on Monday.
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Deborah Greco
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mostly in our court, there are budget restrictions against the judges going late. And they were supposed to be closing the courts on Friday.

With that said, I've worked a lot of Fridays, and our last jury trial, the reporter was there until about 7:30.

Before the recession, things would go late, 7 or 8, with regular nonjury matters. And once a jury gets the case, the judge would let them go as late as they felt like staying, usually 10 or 11.

I did a day in court in a very highly publicized trial, and I got just under 500 pages one day. Seems, though, that we only went to about 6 that day. Just a long day.
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LB
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was an official for about seven years in the '90s, the only reporter in the courthouse, and we almost always started at 9:00 and went to no later than 4:30. Actually, 4:30 was later than usual, 4:00 being the norm. That was a setting I could deal with but for the idiot court officers that harassed me endlessly.

Being an official is usually a very, very hard job, and being made to be on the record for ridiculous hours is just too much, especially if it's done on a regular basis. Of course, with my sense of responsibility, I wouldn't have complained at the time...typical CR - we can't get out of our own way. lol.
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It used to bother me when I worked in court and we were not unionized yet and we would reach a certain time and folks started getting paid at a higher rate - well, not all folks, especially the folks who were working the hardest.
We used to have a judge who was not married, had no hobbies (except for reading), no kids around, and he would set matters to begin at 5:00 p.m. Another good reason for unions.
Ironically, the best judge I ever worked with ran the least amount of hours in a day and accomplished the most. He put up with no crap, no fluff, no grandstanding. To the Law & Motion audience before the first case was called: "I've read all your pleadings. If you have anything to say WITHOUT REPEATING WHAT YOU'VE STATED IN YOUR PLEADINGS, you may."
"Submitted, Your Honor."
I would have worked for that guy forever.
Deb, 500 pages, that's getting into an area where it can cause you physical harm.
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Deborah Greco
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John, I would agree with your observation, except this being the defendant testifying under oath for the first time in these whole proceedings, he was coached very well only to answer yes, no, or I don't know, so a lot of the testimony was very open:

Q Did you kill your wife?
A No.

So the pages added up pretty quickly, but not to diminish the fact that it was a lot of words. As opposed to legal arguments, running wall to wall, at 500 page would have buried me.
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DebbieTurner
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here in Pinellas County, Florida, the budget constraints mean that we rarely work past 5 p.m. anymore. The judges have to take into consideration the sheriff's office budget (since they supply the bailiffs).

I am ever so grateful for this. The latest I have ever stayed was around 1:30 a.m. on a criminal case (having started at 8:30 a.m. the previous day). And then having to go home at 1:30 a.m., eat, decompress, and get up in time to arrive at 8:30 that day? Oy. Glad those days are gone.
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here in D.C. we typically work in court from 9:30 a.m. to 4:45 p.m. Chief judge's orders have us done at 4:45. There are a couple judges that ignore that, but mostly by about 15 minutes or so. They don't want to pay overtime to the staff.
It's very rare that I leave here after 5.
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was in a brain injury trial a couple of years ago - expert witnesses, one after the other, day in and day out. Several days into the trial, the judge let the jury go around 5:00. She then took argument from the attorneys until 7:30'ish that evening. It was a very heated discussion, case law flying, three attorneys all vying for her attention and all trying to speak on top of each other. I finally had enough when all of them then starting speaking at once, and I put this statement in the appeal transcript:

THE COURT REPORTER: I cannot take down three people at a time at 7:30 at night.

I think we finally broke around 7:45. The judge actually apologized to me afterwards. I was kind of surprised because I thought I had been a little mouthy. Everyone ran out of the courtroom. Only the one who was the biggist /SKWRABG/A*SZ of all of them actually walked me to my car. Figures.
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We cover two courts. Both are busy. We run back and forth between the two. Sometimes we'll have a visiting judge cover court at one courthouse while we're at the other. Court now starts at 8:30 or 9:00. It used to start earlier. We usually have an hour and a half for lunch and then finish out the afternoon. Usually done by 4:00 on non-jury days and by 5:00 on jury days. We've been known to have one jury deliberating while we're starting another trial. Lots of fun when Jury No. 1 keeps sending in notes during Jury No. 2 trial. And while Jury No. 2 trial is out deliberating, we're conducting another unrelated hearing.

Years ago, we picked eight juries in one day. However, the judge's predecessor holds the record in these parts with 16 jury selections in one day.
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where I per-diem, also due to budget restrictions, they don't usually go beyond 5pm. But the other day I was taking jury selection, only my 2nd time, was all unfamiliar to me, sidebars, whatever with the first group. The first group gets taken in the back for whatever reason. This is how in a daze I was... It's 4:45 and I look in the audience, as I call it, and there's a lot of people. I freak out in my notes, "Oh, my God, there's a lot of people here, what are they doing? Are we having a trial NOW?" And then my mind came back to me and reminded me they are the rest of the potential jurors. Oh. Phew.
Then they call up the next group of PJs and my mind freaks out again in my notes, "Oh, my God, we're going to to through the same thing NOW?!?" But as it turned out, judge then suspended for the evening.
Oh, how I hate being inexperienced.
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LB
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have 3458 posts on Depoman (which means you've probably read 10 times that), ECL. You can't possibly be inexperienced. Smile
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I was an official, we were on salary, and we just worked whatever there was to work. Theoretically, we were supposed to get comp time or whatever, but my judge understood that if he wanted to work till 6:00, I'd work till 6:00. If I wanted to take off at 4:00 with nothing on the calendar, he was okay with me taking off at 4:00.

It's different now. The reporters are pooled and no longer assigned to individual judges, and there are budget consequences to holding people overtime.

But I remember one day in particular. It was a criminal motion/prelim hearing day, so there's no way to add up the pages. We started on the record at 8:15. Took a five-minute break at 10:00. Took a 45-minute lunch break at 12:15. Took a five-minute break at 3:00. Took a ten-minute break at 5:00. Final recess at 7:30.

I was completely cooked. I came in the next day with my neurons still frizzed. Judge came in and apologized. At that point, I was young and tough, and I just figured it was an extraordinarily tough day, and it would be balanced by its share of easy ones. Nowadays, I might not be so charitable.
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Steno Jules
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What kills me about those long jury trials is that after I've already been writing for 10 hours with 350 pages, they let the jury go have dinner. Then, when I'm completely exhausted, I get to report another 100 pages or so consisting of oral argument over jury instructions at a super-fast pace with a crapload of case citations followed by margin-to-margin colloquy with jury instructions and closing arguments just when my arms are about ready to fall off. It's survivable if you have two good attorneys, but toss in a young attorney who likes to talk a million miles an hour, and it's just unbearable. By the end of hour 14 when I'm finally reporting the verdict my mind and body are numb. Then it's time to pack up for what is often another hour in the car before getting home.
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steno Jules wrote:
What kills me about those long jury trials is that after I've already been writing for 10 hours with 350 pages, they let the jury go have dinner. Then, when I'm completely exhausted, I get to report another 100 pages or so consisting of oral argument over jury instructions at a super-fast pace with a crapload of case citations followed by margin-to-margin colloquy with jury instructions and closing arguments just when my arms are about ready to fall off. It's survivable if you have two good attorneys, but toss in a young attorney who likes to talk a million miles an hour, and it's just unbearable. By the end of hour 14 when I'm finally reporting the verdict my mind and body are numb. Then it's time to pack up for what is often another hour in the car before getting home.


I'm exhausted just from reading that.
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is abuse.
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess the courts in VA have the budget to go all night, w/ the money saved from having no officials.
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, sometimes the only "staff" there after hours is the judge. Court reporters are paid by the litigants in civil trials. I actually worked one trial where the judge had to lock the courthouse up at the end of the night. And oftentimes the automatic HVAC reverts to the after-hours settings, so we roast or freeze if we stay too long after hours.

One of the judges here always tells the jury, "With our budget, you have two choices for dinner: pizza or pizza." Wink
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is abuse. If one could really experience and comprehend what it is to be a verbatim reporter, they would stop it!
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MemphisTigers
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All that brings back such horrid memories of being a reporter here since 1975. I have always been freelance in our civil courts, and abuse of both attorneys and court reporters by the judges was rampant. I remember trials from 9:00 a.m. to 11:00 at night, Chancery matters that went from 9:00 to 9:00 with about three fifteen-minute breaks, no lunch, no dinner, and one ABC Commission hearing that went from 9:00 a.m. to 1:00 a.m.

I was too inexperienced and intimidated to speak up for myself, and it was simply not done here by any reporters. Now that the Sheriff's Dept. has a limited budget, things have improved a lot, and we have more sensible judges.

Our court hours are 9:00 or 10:00 to 4:30 or 5:00, with an hour and a half for lunch, and one fifteen-minute break in morning and afternoon. But any of that can change at the judge's discretion. It's still possible to sit around all day for a hearing, and then get started at 5:00.


Last edited by MemphisTigers on Mon May 27, 2013 2:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MemphisTigers wrote:
All that brings back such horrid memories of being a reporter here since 1975. I have always been freelance in our civil courts, and abuse of both attorneys and court reporters by the judges was rampant. I remember trials from 9:00 a.m. to 11:00 at night, Chancery matters that went from 9:00 to 9:00 with about three fifteen-minute breaks, no lunch, no dinner, and one ABC Commission hearing that went from 9:00 a.m. to 1:00 a.m.

I was too inexperienced and intimidated to speak up for myself, and it was simply not done here by any reporters. Now that the Sheriff's Dept. has a limited budget, things have improved a lot, and we have more sensible judges.

Our court hours are 9:00 or 10:00 to 4:30 or 5:00, with an hour and a half for lunch, and two fifteen-minute breaks in morning and afternoon. But any of that can change at the judge's discretion. It's still possible to sit around all day for a hearing, and then get started at 5:00.


There really needs to be someone who can schedule these things and stick to the schedule. It is a tremendous waste of money for everyone to come to court at the same time and then wait until their matter is called up. This is one reason why litigation costs are so high. Things are so inefficient.
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ken, couldn't possibly agree more. I mean, I understand that sometimes things happen that are outside of one's control, but when I see hearings that are set for four hours that literally go on for two full days I just get ticked. Don't tell me that no one in that case didn't see that coming. And it really bugs me when judges let it happen. Some judges here are great and will literally run a timer on the time taken by each side. You schedule for four hours, that's all the time you're getting. The judge will give each side an hour 45 for opening, closing, direct of their witnesses and cross of the other side's witnesses. That leaves 30 minutes for the ruling and other incidentals. If you run out of the time allotted to you before you put all your evidence on, too bad. Bad case management is not the judge's fault.

I always feel bad for subpoenaed witnesses who have to just sit outside the courtroom for two full days and then their testimony ends up not being needed. That just seems so ridiculous to me. They have to miss two full days of work for what will literally be five minutes of testimony in a civil matter.
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MemphisTigers
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our judges have full authority in their courtrooms, and some do a better job of reigning in testimony than others. They are all very concerned about providing litigants a full hearing, and go out of their way to give them time.

But cases are continued so much, settle so often, even in the middle of trial, and have hangups at the last minute, that the judges overschedule their dockets and everyone arrives and gets in line and then waits. Judges take transfers only if they choose to do it.

Very inefficient, but it's the attorneys' and witnesses' and CR's time they are wasting. It's the way it's always been done, and our judges are very autonomous. Some take breaks in chambers for varying lengths of time, for whatever reasons.

I would estimate my lower court cases are settled or continued when I get to court about 70 percent of the time, and my depositions are cancelled about 40 percent of the time. Some clients I get paid; some, I don't. Long-time local custom. You go with the flow, or you lose your business. Court reporters here are very "autonomous", too, to our great detriment.
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Tfehlman
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya'll are scaring me! I only stayed late once, when a judge who didn't care went until 6:30 at night. Of course, it was the Friday before a holiday weekend, and I had plans to get somewhere by a certain time. But being a pro tem and a newbie, I didn't say anything. This is also the same judge who wouldn't say a thing or ask how I was doing when I couldn't get my nose to stop running while counsel were reading a depo into the record, but that's another story.

Due to budget constraints, our criminal hours are 8:30 to 5:00 with lunch from 12:00 to 1:30. We usually begin trial around 9:00, and we end at 4:30. Civil tends to go longer because of the morning calendar, and they do start at 8:30, but with the same hours basically as criminal.

I'll tell ya, if I had to work the hours you guys are all talking about, I definitely would quit this profession. There's only so much abuse one can take, and I take it daily with my nice schedule!
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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DebbieTurner wrote:
Here in Pinellas County, Florida, the budget constraints mean that we rarely work past 5 p.m. anymore. The judges have to take into consideration the sheriff's office budget (since they supply the bailiffs).

I am ever so grateful for this. The latest I have ever stayed was around 1:30 a.m. on a criminal case (having started at 8:30 a.m. the previous day). And then having to go home at 1:30 a.m., eat, decompress, and get up in time to arrive at 8:30 that day? Oy. Glad those days are gone.


I 'member dat...

re the budget/hours, i've been extremely disturbed the last couple of years when we came darned close to declaring a mistrial on a week-long (or more) JT because the jury was still out around 5:30! In fact, i was so disturbed by it that i put a bug in a local columnist's ear to check into it, but he didn't seem interested in following up. that would be an absolute travesty IMO. (esply in the one case in particular - it was the second try. first one was a mistrial in closing args a few months before. so they were back to try it again, got it to the jury, and they're going to mistry it just because we're getting into bailiff/clerk OT??)

this is one of three such incidents I've personally been aware of or involved in in the last couple years.
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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember reporting some State Bar disciplinary hearings. They would set a timer for arguments. It did not mater if you were in midsentence - if that time went off, you were done.
BTW, I loved seeing some of those offending attorneys getting their just deserts.
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our court is very busy. We are beginning court at 8 AM, taking a short lunch break at 1 PM, then not recessing until 7 PM. As others have said, the jury is released at 5 PM, then the AC goes off, the speed of speech increases and the citations start getting spewed out of ever-increasing mush mouths. It can be painful.

When I graduated CR school, the first CR I talked to asked me why I wanted to be a CR. He said, "Go back to school and be a judge. Judges get to tell people when they can go to the bathroom."

Now I understand what kind of judge he worked for.
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

8am to 1pm with NO BATHROOM break??? Abuse!!
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a first-year reporter. About three months ago we had a guardianship hearing go from 8:30 a.m. to 11 p.m. with no dinner break. 450 pages. Being so new, I didn't realize this was something that just didn't and wouldn't happen with other reporters.

I don't know about you all, but the ironic thing of it all was I noticed the later it got, the more the attys started trailing off, asking for read backs, misidentifying witnesses and even their own clients. Not very efficient, is it?

Of course, the only order I had for the transcript was of the judge's ruling, and I had to giggle as I went through and changed Morning Session to Evening Session and noted the start time as 10:20 PM...

[Edited to fix typo.]
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is totally abusive. I don't know how you did it. Occasionally when that occurred many years ago for me, my firm would send a replacement reporter late in the afternoon of such a juggernaut.

I hope you charged your per diems accordingly.

I think more of us should speak up and say that is abusive and the record suffers.
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